"We thought that there were documents for the land, but they were never found": the initiators of the case against ex-minister Solsky told new details

The case of NABU detectives against the already ex-minister of Agrarian Policy Mykola Solsky opened a "Pandora's box"without exaggeration. And the question is not so much in the ex-minister himself, who eight years ago was a lawyer and, as he says, helped the ATO soldiers privatize land in the Sumy region, which is now claimed by the National Academy of Agrarian Sciences (Naas), but in the fact that this case exposed a huge "black hole" into which the "agrarian scientists" themselves drained state land. And now, when the state decided to open the land market and give land plots to private hands, it turned out that not everything is as good as it was noted  in statistics. Moreover, high-profile accusations of NABU and SAPO led to the breakdown of negotiations with Poland on unblocking borders for Ukrainian farmers. The poles unilaterally stopped communication, taking advantage of an alleged corruption case against Ukrainian officials.

Specifically regarding the case of ex-minister Solsky, the NABU decided to defend the Naas officials and actually against the ATO participants. But the detectives do not have many arguments due to the existing Court decisions, which established the lack of land rights in the Naas represented by their state-owned enterprises Iskra and Nadezhda. Sims  the courts actually  confirmed that at the time of the privatization of land plots, They  were free and self-seized by "agricultural scientists". The latter, in turn, claim that they tried to formalize the land, but it didn't work out, there were documents, but someone destroyed them, they don't know how to prove them, so they turned to the NABU. 

With  a request for details of the case, UNN turned to Viktor Kabants, who since 2012 heads the Institute of Agriculture, which was subordinate to the mentioned state-owned enterprises of agricultural scientists.

- when Iskra and Nadezhda entered your Institute, who did they report to before? And did they have documents for land plots?

Experimental farms "Iskra" and "Nadezhda", which are located in the Romensky district (Sumy region - ED.), have been part of the network of the Institute of Agriculture of the north-east of the National Academy of Sciences since 2014. If I remember correctly, from the beginning of the year – from January. Prior to that, they were subordinated to the Naas direction.

As of 2014, they were separate business entities and remained so when they joined the network of our institute.

They were included in the network of our institute functionally to help conduct scientific research, seed work, breeding in animal husbandry – for example, for curating in the scientific and practical sphere. Naas provides us with material resources for use, that is, premises, various technical means, and land plots that we design.

editorial note: it is worth noting that the land legislation does not provide that the Naas can transfer state-owned land plots to organizations under its jurisdiction either for permanent use or for lease.

At that time (as of the beginning of 2014 – ED.), they were going through the processes of registration of land plots that are assigned to them.

I will round it up a little: Iskra had 2 thousand 630 hectares at that time, if I'm not mistaken, and Nadezhda had 3 thousand 260 hectares, plus or minus I can make a little mistake. This is the total area, this is arable land. And we were already engaged in land registration together in the future.

- What confirmed their right to use the land?

"Let's just say, from the early days. It was confirmed (the right to use – ed.) by the relevant reporting, certificates from the Presidium of the Naas, first of all.

Secondly, to develop regulatory, technical and land documentation, they took certificates from district departments of both the agro-industrial complex and land resources back in 2012-2013.

And Third, every year, at the beginning of the year, in order to pay the land tax, each enterprise, including the state, is obliged to take a certificate - at that time of land resources, now Derzhgeokadastru – on the consolidation and ownership of certain land plots.

Note editorial offices: in Ukraine, it is not uncommon for several business entities to consider land plots as their own and at the same time can pay taxes for them. However, this does not confirm their right to land.

- Was this certificate issued once a year?

- Yes, because the monetary valuation and tax norms changed, so they took it every year. And every year until 2017 or 2018, Gosgeokadastr, or before that – these are Land Resources, issued such certificates to each enterprise and said that this land is assigned to you, do not worry, work and everything will be fine for you.

- This is understandable, but the boundaries of land belonging to this enterprise should still be legally confirmed?

– Let's put it this way-in Soviet times, Nadezhda was a State Farm, and people either didn't get their hands on it, or there was no such need to formalize these land relations. Iskra went through many stages - it was a collective farm, it was an Artel, it was a State Farm, and it was subordinate to the Naas. That is, there was a diverse subordination. And when Iskra was an Artel, a copy of this title document was found later during NABU searches. But as of the time when they were an Artel. And on the basis of this, they had such land use within the limits on which they managed.

- How can they, even in 2014, use land just because they had a copy of the state act of the 50s, the Soviet act?

- There are issues of succession. I do not know how it was in 1993 (probably a reservation of the speaker - Ed.), when the free and independent state of Ukraine became. I think they are not the only ones who did not formalize land relations. The fact is that the Institute where we are now located, and our experimental farm, which is located nearby, also did not have these documents, and I have already issued them. I came here as a director, but we didn't have any land title documents. We also worked here for a long time. Our institute has been located on this territory since 1905, and no one has registered it, no one has asked us. Work hard. We reported on where we work, how we work, and in what territory. Every year we report on the areas of sowing, every year we report on the areas of harvesting, and accordingly on the productivity of animals, on livestock, and to the Academy of Sciences we report to the state statistics bodies that were. That's how they worked. I have been working at the Institute since 2012. So, somewhere in 2012, we began to formalize these land relations. The Institute and the experimental farm in Gosgeokadastre were allowed to develop this documentation and approved it. At that time, there were no longer state acts, but according to the procedure, they already issued US extracts for the right to use these land plots.

editorial note: by 2014, experimental farms had already reissued documents for the right to use land plots several times in accordance with the land legislation in force at that time.

- I have more clarification – you said that there is a succession, did Iskra and Nadezhda have any documents for succession? So how do I get an inheritance there, for example?

- No, no. in 2012-2013 "Iskra" and "Nadezhda" we have started work on the registration of landих dilyanOK for this business entity activities. and they specifically ordered – I insisted on it – this documentation from the state Institute of Land Management. They paid certain amounts, I don't remember exactly, but at that time it was a lot of money, for the development of this documentation, they received all the permits – both in the district and in the district structures. First, the District Department of Gosgeokadastru gives permission for this development, then the regional administration confirmed these permits for the production of documentation. that is, this documentation was produced, Cadastral numbers were obtained for these lands, and after that there should be an approval procedure in Gosgeokadastre, and the last state registrar approved all these things. Iskra and Nadezhda did not have time to pass the last two instances – this is to get an order from the state Geocadaster and, accordingly, the turn did not reach the state registrar.

editorial note: as stated in the court's decisions, the technical documentation of Iskra and Nadezhda is not approved in accordance with the established procedure, and therefore is not considered created documentation, does not establish legally significant facts and does not create any rights and obligations for these state – owned enterprises.

We dragged these things for a very long time, did not give them to us under any pretexts. We have a very large correspondence of both enterprises with the district and regional departments of Gosgeokadastr about what needs to be added here, what is wrong with you, then add. This dragged on for several years. And when it came almost to court, they refused us.

- You said that Iskra and Nadezhda submitted a package of documents, and cadastral numbers were already assigned to the land plots. In order for Gosgeokadastr to develop a map with land plots, it also had to rely on something. On the basis of what documents did he take this information that a certain piece of land belongs to Iskra, and not to someone else?

- Land use boundaries were agreed in writing with each neighbor. If these are district lands, then with the district administration, if it is a neighboring agricultural enterprise, then with it, if it is a village council, then with the village council. With all neighbors, this is a mandatory procedure and it must be observed.

- You said that the Institute's land was registered. How long did it take?

- I'm afraid to make a mistake, I think somewhere in 2015-2016 we managed to register land, maybe even in 2017.

- A started in 2012 after your ghappointment to the position?

- Since 2012. We already had the documentation, but it was also not approved. That's why we started doing this work – clarifying and so on.

- in an interview Latifundist.com you said that in the spring of 2017, Gosgeokadastru received an order to conduct an inspection in Iskra and Nadezhda. The commission, which was created for verification, found that the land in both enterprises is self-seized. How can you explain this? What happened next? What were your actions after the check?

- That's right-in the spring of 2017. The order was from Kiev, from their central (Gosgeokadastr – ED.) office. The commission included a representative of the central office of Gosgeokadastr, representatives of regional and district structures. They checked and established the absence of regulatory documents for the right to use these land areas at that time. And accordingly, they gave us a deadline to provide these title documents, and at the next check, they counted US large fines, these were millions of fines, if I'm not mistaken, for one enterprise it was more than 3 million, for the second 4 million, the NABU materials contain all these figures. And accordingly, one and the other directors, who are no longer alive today, unfortunately, have already been issued fines and suspicions have been established that they illegally seized these lands and manage them there.

- You said in the same interview that you were not allowed to go to Gosgeokadastr when, after checking, you started looking for documentation on the land of Iskra and Nadezhda. Who exactly wouldn't let you in? Have you written relevant complaints about these individuals?

– Let's do this-they didn't let us in, it doesn't mean that they were standing at the gate. After biased actions started against us, we started looking for these documents. the first place we looked for them was in the enterprises themselves, in safes and accounting departments. This venture did not end in success. we searched in the district archives, in the archives of the Romensky district, also without success. We searched in the regional archive – or rather, we applied in writing to Gosgeokadastr – they never gave us an answer, or there were answers about nothing, or that they do not have such materials. And so that somewhere to go, to rush, and we were not allowed to keep, I can't say that. They just didn't provide them and everyone didn't help us with these things.

- If so, do you still have copies of the complaints?

- I can't say whether there are any or not. These are very large volumes of papers, you can't imagine if I kept everything – half of the office would definitely take up.

- It turns out that you were looking for the original act of the 50s, or what documents were Iskra and Nadezhda looking for on Earth?

- You see, the management changed at the enterprises, they passed it on (documents – Ed.), i will repeat once again – at the enterprises of these constituent entities themselves we did not find any documents on land relations. there were certain indirect references to some documents, which we began to understand and find out that they still exist somewhere.

- Do I understand correctly that these documents were not checked or searched for earlier, when Iskra and Nadezhda were just part of the Institute in 2014?

- They were looking. As of 2014, they were not available.

- And what were your actions?

- The actions were what they should have been. One and the other company was at the stage of developing these documents, in a new order, and I only contributed to this development of documents and supported these actions, one and the other director to make them, and put them in the safe.

- Why, in your opinion, Iskra and Nadezhda have not issued documents for land plots in accordance with Ukrainian legislation since 1991?

- I can't say.

- Did you appoint Vitaly Stazilov and Lyudmila Samoylenko as the leaders of Iskra and Nadezhda?

- At that time there was such an order. He appointed the director by agreement of the Naas presidium.

- Then they ended their contracts for a year, you continued to cooperate with them through the acting director. You've seen that they don't actually do anything for land registration, have you? Why didn't you fire them?

- I don't quite understand the malice of your question, but I will say this: first of all, the contracts were not for a year, but were, if I'm not mistaken, either up to 3 or up to 5 years. Second. No matter how busy they were, I saw their work, the pile of waste paper they carry around. I saw that this was a difficult job, and even my intervention – I should have been fired - did not lead to positive consequences for resolving this issue. We started to fight against a blank wall.

editorial note: according to the accusatory acts, the contract with the head of the state enterprise "DG "Iskra" Lyudmila Samoylenko was signed on 16.04.2015 and ended on 15.04.2016; the contract with the head of the state enterprise "DG Agrofirma "Nadezhda" Vitaly Stazilov was signed on 14.02.2015 and ended on 9.01.2016. In other words, the contracts were signed for one year.

- Stazilov and Samoylenko received suspicions and even indictments, including for self-seizure of land. According to the indictments, enterprises that were supposed to be engaged in breeding leased land to private structures. The case concerns the events of 2016, 2017 and 2018, that is, even before the time when the land plots were transferred to ATO veterans. How can you comment on this? Have you been questioned in this criminal proceeding? Have you been notified of suspicion as their supervisor?

- Let's do this. Many people wrote about what was written in the indictment, and not only that. You read it again and you'll see a lot of new things there. No one leased a single piece of land to anyone, neither private, public, nor budget structures. No one had a lease relationship, this is the first one. It's just that when the scythe went to the stone and we started suing them, they also started playing games like this with us, not good ones.

- Who should I sue?

- With Gosgeokadastre. This is a regional structure. A lot of interesting things are coming out now. What the NABU has already published, how they managed it, who wrote them reports to the courts, who supervised them. Another picture has already been highlighted.

- While you can explain the fact that Iskra and Nadezhda have been signing contracts with a number of enterprises for joint land cultivation since 2017, as a result of which they obtained not only minimal profit, but sometimes even negative. At the same time, the yield was high, why so?

– I repeat-neither for rent, nor for joint cultivation, no one does anything to anyone. We have documents with the Presidium of the Naas, where we are informed every year that we do not have the right to lease land plots, conclude joint lease agreements, joint management – we do not have the right to do this. We didn't sign these contracts. We didn't rent anything out. We can rent out premises, but we can't rent out land plots.

- But did you attract them?

- Attracted. Outsiders, but they were not so easy to find, and they tried to negotiate with their neighbors. We worked with our neighbors for one year, agreed with Poltava residents for another year, and even earlier we signed contracts with romensk residents, and with local residents and a little further away. If the land is not registered, then this is a risk for everyone – here he invests money and this is a risk for him. He comes in-we honestly warned everyone, because these are risks. Iskra and Nadezhda had unforgivable moments during the sowing campaign, because it is necessary to sow, but there is no money and working capital, and there are not enough other funds. secondly, the land was gradually depleted, and it is no secret – I say this frankly – during these years they were gradually harvested, and they were depleted. record harvests were not obtained there, although they were different – there were also average harvests in separate fields and years. But the cost part was also significant. And what you want to say where it went – the police looked at us under a magnifying glass, so if it went somewhere in the wrong direction, it would have stopped us.

- So I understand correctly that these accusations in your opinion had a political background?

- That's right. if we were given everything that we want and what we need, а and so there is no funding, nothing – how can we work without violations? To date, I think you will not name a single enterprise – whether state – owned or not-that has absolutely no errors in economic activity. today we need a vaccine for cattle (cattle), we need to look for it, and there are managers who have solved this issue. In the legal field, well, perhaps with certain errors.

- Have you been questioned?

- Interrogated.

- And you also declared that this is groundless?

- This is the desire of the investigators to see this, but the court has not proven it anywhere.

- You said that you felt biased on the courts for the right of Iskra and Nadezhda to use land plots, including from law enforcement officers. Have you filed complaints against law enforcement officers or judges?

- Yes, we felt biased on almost all ships. I was personally present on many ships. And I felt this bias, clearly, clearly, unambiguously. I wrote (complaints – Ed.), and to President Petro Poroshenko, and dovladimir Zelensky, and to the Verkhovna Rada, the head of the parliament, to the SBU and to the police. We wrote to various authorities about this lawlessness.

- When did you write a statement to the NABU regarding the land used by Iskra and Nadezhda?

- We wrote and wrote and did not receive a response. The fact is that all these structures to which we wrote, they gave instructions to understand these issues to the state Geocadaster, which gave all the biased orders and coordinated this work. I was at a reception with the deputy of Gosgeokadastru, I don't remember her last name, she is now the deputy minister of Agrarian Policy. She listened to us, said we'll figure it out. While we were driving, she even punished a couple of employees in Sumy for "not fulfilling their duties enough.

- If there wasn't?

- Yes, after 2020 plus or minus.

- And it was with this statement that criminal proceedings were opened, within the framework of which the former minister of agricultural policy was already involved Nikolai Solsky was declared suspicious? What do I mean by a statement to NABU?

– I say once again – after we already wrote everywhere, and did not receive (answers – Ed.), and after half of our land was taken away, and we learned from our friends that the other half (of the land-ED.) documents are already being made in Gosgeokadastre. This was the last hope, we wrote to NABU.

- What year was it?

After receiving our letter, the investigator called us, who announced that he was assigned to conduct this case and he asked us for some materials – we sent them to him. After a short time, they went to search both the Sumy geocadaster and the District geocadaster Department in Romny.

- Is it 2020? Or later?

- We went out once. That's when it's written. Let's get this straight. I don't remember.

- What is the purpose of writing an application to NABU? So that these lands that Derzhgeokadastrzpalyuvav returned to Iskra and Nadezhda?

- This is a collective decision. It was me and the SOE directors who were sitting and conferring at the table. They're victims. I am the head of the affected entities. Both I and they wrote to NABU on their own behalf. I, as a separate business entity, and they as a separate one. We wrote to NABU and first of all this is from road accidents, in which, we believe, part of the land was illegally seized from one and the other enterprise. That is, it was our collective decision, but each company wrote it separately.

I no longer believed that they would return the land that had already been used for the second time. And then they didn't really believe it anymore. Because Gosgeokadastr used different schemes. The first scheme is to lease these lands through an auction, as free land. Moreover, they transferred the materials for the auction not to the Sumy region, but to Chernihiv, so that they could get away. We found out about this, sued this decision, and the auction did not take place.

Then they started looking for other options for how to do it, they were prompted with a scheme – or they thought of it themselves - for 2 hectares of atoshniki. The NABU materials describe all this. 2 hectares each is 1.3 thousand ATO veterans. It is with each individual that you need to sue, this is unrealistic. And the fact is that the atoshniki did not violate anything under the law, we have no complaints against them, they used their right, which is legalized – the right to receive 2 hectares of land. Yes, there are ATO veterans from the Sumy Region, Western Ukraine, Southern and central Ukraine, but this is not prohibited by law. That is, we can't make any claims against atoshnikov. We have a question for these organizations – so we turned to NABU. And we turned to NABU with the goal of preserving the remaining land,and we have managed to do this today. 

- If there are no complaints against atoshnikov, to whom are the complaints? To Gosgeokadastr?

- They implemented it, I didn't force them – they did it of their own free will. There are curators there.. It is also written in the materials of the NABU investigation there are curators of course.and this was also an unpleasant case for Sumy landowners, but they set such conditions.

- Good. Over the years, DP accounts "Iskra " and" Nadezhda " were arrested in various enforcement proceedings, but what activities are the latter engaged in?

"I can't tell you right now. Let's do this: when we accepted "hope" from them and there was land use, which I announced, I will not repeat myself, they had, if I'm not mistaken, 630 heads of milking herd. After a certain period, when half of the area was taken away, it was necessary to reduce the number of livestock accordingly. The fact is that doing business in such conditions is simply on the verge of impossible. I will give you an example: to grow products, and then sell them, you need to sell them either for cash, but the price is less, or officially sell them, but you also need to add a certificate for the right to use land and everything else. In order for those firms that resell it abroad to receive a VAT refund, they need all the supporting documents that they are producers and that they have sold official agricultural products. Therefore, there are a lot of economic questions here, which I won't tell you all right now. every year, starting from 2017-2018, the company began to perform worse.

- If the state enterprise "Iskra " and" Nadezhda " return all the land, what will they do with it if they do not have the funds and resources to process it?

- Difficult question. Today, there are processes in the state, there is a certain decision of the Constitutional Court, which regulates the analysis of improving the efficiency of land use. That is, about improving the efficiency of using land plots of the state enterprise, not only the Academy of Sciences, different – there are land plots in the Academy of Sciences, in the Ministry of Education, in the Ministry of defense there are land plots, and in the Ministry of Agrarian Policy. So the Cabinet of ministers issued such a title document, according to which land that is inefficiently used should be transferred to the state property fund. Accordingly, it is for these reasons that Iskra and Nadezhda were transferred from the Naas to the state fund property department in September last year, if I'm not mistaken. And already for the 3rd quarter, both enterprises reported to the state property fund, they also closed there for a year, and today they do not report to us.

editorial note: according to the open financial statements of enterprises for 2022-2023, Iskra has an insufficient liquidity indicator and is in the process of liquidation, while Nadezhda has a catastrophic current liquidity indicator.

- But in fact, Iskra now has no agricultural land?

- What's not. They still have 1,400 hectares.

- And in"Hope"?

- Somewhere around 1900 hectares.

- In your opinion, if in 2017 they found the original state act for the right to use land plots, issued back in 50 years allegedly on the land of Iskra, would it help to preserve the landelni plots, so that Gosgeokadastr would not then unsolder them?

"It would help, I think. The judges behaved biased, but if there was such an original document, you can't argue against it. The only thing I wanted to add is that once in the Sumy District Court, a female judge asked a representative of Gosgeokadastr – did enterprises apply to you for land registration? She said nothing, bowed her head, and said nothing.

editor's Note:  Viktor Kabanets claims that "everyone" prevented enterprises from obtaining land documents, but at the same time notes that in fact the employees themselves "did not get around" to doing so.

- In Iskra, we were shown a copy of the act of the 50s and we were interested there that the document says Stalin's Artel, then crossed out with a pen and says" Iskra". How can you explain this?

- I don't know. These are legal issues.

- If this is a copy, then in the original theory, too, yes? Will this act work then?

- Well, I didn't see the original, I didn't have to.

editorial note: above, Viktor Kabanets claimed that documents confirming the right to permanent use of the lands of Iskra and Nadezhda were sought since 2014 to formalize this right in accordance with Ukrainian legislation. That is, the original state act was missing back in 2014, long before Gosgeokadastr decided to transfer the land to atoshniki.

- We were also interested in you personally when we were preparing for the interview , and we had a question – you do not declare any houses or apartments, why?

- I live in a house registered to my daughter.

- But this is cohabitation and you must declare it?

- Let's see my declaration. I am neither rich nor poor. I can't find the declaration. 

- We have reviewed your declaration and the declaration of your son Vitaly, and you and he indicate several land plots of the same area and in the same locality. And there the price is not specified, it is obvious that it was the right to a share or what kind of land is it?

- To the first question-I live in a townhouse, the house in the city of Sumy, which we built from 2002 to 2007, I gave to my son Vitaly. At that time, I was working at Sumy National Agrarian University, I practically worked there all my life, and 18 land plots were officially allocated, including to me, who was then the vice-rector of scientific work. Of the 18 sites that were allocated to the faculty, I built one. Good or bad-I think it's good.

The house was built on its own almost at that time, and I gave it away. The house is not large, it is an attic, 200 square meters. meters. And in a townhouse I now live 100 sq.m, my wife and I have enough of this, we bought it from the foundation, paid payments for 2 years, then repairs for 2 years, in 4 years we moved to a townhouse. There is no secret everyone sees everything, we do not have a big city, everything is visible. And today we live there. We issued a townhouse for our daughter - our son was given a homeland, and we need to give it to our daughter. And I also gave my daughter an apartment, which I got back in 1993 in Sumy, when I worked at the Sumy Agricultural Institute.

So I distributed such property among my children and I believe that I did the right thing, because many people today have big quarrels at the family level and I would not like this to happen. My will – it is there, and I think that my daughter will not expel me from the townhouse, my son will also shelter me. There is no discord in our family, but God protects the protected.

About land plots. After working at Sumy national Agar university, I worked for 4 years at the Glukhiv Institute of Bast crops. First, also a deputy director for six months, and then a director. And at that time, I also used my right, in such territories,where I have indicated where they are located. These land plots were registered, including for children and for me. I wrote applications at that time in accordance with the established procedure and there were no scandals – I used my right as a citizen of Ukraine and received land plots there. Two more plots of land - these are my father and mother – they died and gave them to me.

Why is there no cost? We didn't know what to put there, we didn't conduct an assessment, we are not going to sell them, they are now in a very good place, under fire, so the Earth is now idle. But I think that everything will work out and we will start working there. But there is no cost,because we were not going to sell it yet. We pay taxes.

This is 2 hectares each, if we take the standard monetary assessment on average in the region, it is about 40 thousand UAH per ha.

- Does your son also work at the Institute?

- Yeah.

- So you are its leader?

- No. Here you are already sewing for me. I've already been judged on this син that my son worked here. They found fault with something – for the first time at the end of the year I gave a bonus to the management team, there is something for 1 thousand UAH, researchers for 600 UAH, and laboratory assistants for 400, including my son got – received 600 UAH of the bonus. And it was a conflict of interest and corruption that was sewn on me. I went to the courts for 2 months for these 600 UAH. I did not write out more bonuses to my son. Although it's not fair to work together, sometimes it works more. He is engaged in cannabis breeding, just last week we received another patent for a new variety of cannabis "Katyusha", with which you can congratulate us. We have one variety created at the end of 2021 - "Sofia", and the second is"Katyusha". This year, the Sofia Variety covers more than half of the sown areas of cannabis in Ukraine. Last year we grew about 100 tons of these seeds and now we have sold them out at 0, We hope that this variety will be useful for producers in Zhytomyr, Sumy, Chernihiv, Volyn, Rivne.