Defense mechanisms in war help to survive the psychological stress and painful experiences, and upon returning to civilian life, these mechanisms weaken and the past can catch up with the veteran.
UNN spoke with a clinical psychologist, psychotherapist, trainer of support groups for veterans, director and co-founder of the #brobots engineering school, and veteran of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Pylyp Dukhliy, about whether all veterans need psychological help from specialists, the difference between working with war veterans and working with civilians, and how to help the military during their service and after returning to civilian life.
On October 5-6, Kyiv will host the educational festival "Education of Wonderland 2024". This event will combine two formats: an exhibition for parents and future students with free admission, which will present a wide range of educational opportunities - from kindergartens to adult education, and a forum dedicated to discussing the meaning, goals and future of education, as well as the need for changes in society and the educational system.
The exhibition will be a unique platform where parents and students will be able to get acquainted with modern educational programs, educational institutions, technologies and development opportunities. Both traditional schools and kindergartens and innovative educational platforms and initiatives for adults will be presented. This is a great opportunity for anyone looking for the best solutions for their children's education or personal development.
Over the course of two days, experts from education, business, and civil society organizations will share practical cases that will help transform the educational process in Ukraine.
One of the key speakers of the forum will be Pylyp Dukhliy, a clinical psychologist, psychotherapist and veteran of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. He will share his experience of working with military personnel who have survived captivity or severe injuries and talk about methods that help restore control and dignity. His presentation will focus on the importance of quality therapeutic contact between the client and the therapist as a key factor in effective rehabilitation.
Psychological trauma has become an integral part of the experience of many veterans, and therapy plays a crucial role in their recovery. In this interview, Pylyp Dukhliy discusses in detail how adaptation, loss, and the need for support become important topics in working with veterans.
- Why did you decide to take part in the Education of the Wonderland forum?
History and society develop like a pendulum: we are constantly swinging from one extreme to the other. School used to be a place of total discipline, regulation, and uniformity, where individuality was suppressed and everyone had to conform to common standards, such as wearing the same uniform-a typical Soviet-era approach. Then the pendulum swung the other way, with children getting a lot of freedom, attention, and entertainment, and this, in my opinion, was the other extreme.
I participate in events such as the Education for Miracles forum to advocate for a more balanced position between these two poles. Yes, it is important to support children, understand their emotions and not devalue them. But on the other hand, children need frameworks, discipline, and learning what "should" is, not just "want." I try to promote this approach, where emotional support is combined with the necessary rigor.
- What do you think about the theme of this year's forum, “Freedom of the individual and shared in the education of the future”? What meanings do you see in freedom?
Freedom is an interesting and multifaceted word. Let me start with the context. Today, as we become more knowledgeable, turn to psychologists, and often reflect on our own relationships with our parents, there is a tendency to avoid their mistakes. We strive to become perfect parents, which leads to a sense of great guilt towards children, especially for mothers. This creates a situation where the child becomes the center of the family, and parents try to avoid any conflicts or restrictions in order not to feel guilty.
In this situation, children get too much freedom without appropriate restrictions. They don't always learn to control their emotions because their parents are constantly supporting them and solving problems for them. This can hinder the development of initiative, independence, and the ability to take responsibility. Freedom without responsibility is not complete.
That is why I believe that freedom should be accompanied by responsibility. Children should have as much freedom as they are ready to take on responsibility. As long as the responsibility for the child lies with the parents, they have the right to set boundaries. It is only with age, as they grow up, that this balance gradually changes - parents give their children more freedom along with responsibility.
However, as a psychologist, I see that in many families this balance is now being disturbed: children are given excessive freedom, while responsibility is left to parents. We need to be careful with the concept of freedom. We are a nation that values freedom, but it always requires responsibility. And, unfortunately or fortunately, freedom cannot be gained, it can only be taken . This is my position.
- How and why did you come up with the idea of teaching children to pilot drones at school?
Since I participated in the war, I am well aware of the importance of drone piloting skills. Of course, I would like our children to never need these skills, but there is a possibility that they could be useful. It is better to be prepared in advance than to learn these skills in extreme conditions.
- What unexpected issues did you face when you started implementing experiential learning?
As always, the interest among the children was not uniform. Some students are very motivated, actively involved in the process and show fantastic results, setting records. It is difficult to drag them away from the lessons. However, there are children who are not interested. Initially, we made the course compulsory, but later we realized that we shouldn't force those who are not interested. Therefore, we decided to make it an extracurricular elective. There were also difficulties in finding a room that would meet all safety requirements and allow us to set up a piloting track.
- Do you plan to expand the drone training program to other schools? What recommendations would you give for implementing such initiatives?
We do not plan to specifically expand the program to other schools. If we are asked for help, we are ready to share our experience, but we will not actively offer it, as it is not our priority. Our main task is to teach our students. Working with children from other schools is beyond our responsibility, and we already have enough tasks and workload. Therefore, we are not looking for additional work.
- Which psychotherapy methods are most effective for working with military personnel who have experienced traumatic events?
It is not entirely ethical to compare different methods of psychotherapy, because each of them has its own advantages and shows results. What is more important is the quality of the therapeutic contact between the client and the therapist. Much depends on the therapist himself: his experience, knowledge and professional skills. In my opinion, the therapist's personality is more important than the chosen method. Good therapists do not limit themselves to just one approach; they combine different methods and experiment. Irwin Yalom noted that every time you need to create a new method of psychotherapy for each client, because all people are unique, and it is difficult to fit them to one standard.
- What are the peculiarities of psychological work with military personnel who have been captured or seriously injured?
When working with prisoners of war, the main focus is to restore control over their lives. The loss of control is their most vulnerable point, as prolonged captivity leads to its consolidation in the psyche. The goal of therapy is to regain this control, restore self-confidence, and help them believe in their own strength.
The second important aspect is restoring a sense of dignity. Being in captivity is often accompanied by systematic abuse and humiliation, which significantly undermines self-esteem. This is a difficult job, but it is extremely important.
For the severely wounded, psychological work focuses on the theme of loss. The loss can relate not only to loved ones, but also to health, body parts, hope, self-confidence, and social status. Many losses can be unconscious, but their impact is felt.
Therapy in this case involves the process of grieving and adaptation to new realities, as well as the resocialization of clients. This helps them find a new place in the world after the difficulties they have experienced.
The third aspect of working with captives is to restore their rights, because in captivity they are completely deprived of any rights. It is about the right to one's own life, manifestations, impulses, needs, thoughts and desires.
An important issue that arises in this context is the restoration of self-regulation. In captivity, their lives were completely controlled by other people, with strict adherence to rules and instructions. Therefore, after release, the task of regaining control over one's own life and safety arises. In captivity, a person is deprived of a sense of security, and this constant fear can remain even after release, creating a persistent impression of danger in everything around him.
Another important point is dissociation from the body. In captivity, the body experiences significant suffering, deprivation, and frustration. Feeling one's own body becomes painful and dangerous, so a person can distance himself from it, as if everything that happens does not concern him, but someone else. A person ceases to feel his own body and its needs, including pain. There is a feeling that everything is happening with an abstract body, which she observes from the side.
The process of returning to one's own body is a long and painful journey. It is important to gradually regain the ability to feel yourself and your body, but it requires careful and patient work.
- What is the difference between working with military and civilians?
Working with the military and civilians has a lot in common, as their needs often coincide: relationships, personal boundaries, social adaptation, depression, anxiety, guilt, and social interaction. Of course, the military is more likely to have problems with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Nevertheless, both civilians and the military need similar approaches to therapy, as their psychological needs are basically the same.
- What is the most difficult stage of adaptation for the military?
The most difficult stage of adaptation for the military usually occurs in the first few months after returning from the front. During the service, the psyche is in a state of mobilization, and psychological defenses are activated, which helps to withstand difficult situations. However, after returning, these defenses weaken, and pent-up emotions and experiences come to the surface. A person may feel confused because of the need to adapt to civilian life, which is much more complex and less clear than military reality, where everything was more clearly defined.
Socialization is also an important aspect. After returning to civilian life, a military man continues to feel like a part of the army, but there is a different reality around him. Adaptation is to stop thinking in terms of the military and learn to live like a civilian. This is difficult because the army gives you a sense of dignity, simplicity and clarity in situations where there is an enemy and a friend, black and white. In civilian life, there are no such clear boundaries, and this can cause anxiety and misunderstanding.
It is also worth noting that after returning to a safe environment, the psyche allows you to process those experiences that were suppressed during the war. This is when post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) can develop. All the accumulated emotions and memories begin to come out, often in unexpected forms. A veteran may feel a loss of control, impulsive actions, and a change in perception of reality, which sometimes leads to repeated experiences of extreme situations. Such behavior may seem incomprehensible and even frightening to others.
To summarize: the first two to three months are the most difficult, but full emotional adaptation can take up to a year.
- How can they be supported during this period
Post-return support can be provided at different levels: family, society, volunteer organizations and the Ministry of Veterans. It is especially important that the military have a place to return to and someone to turn to.
It is also very important that society accepts them and feels their need. This includes having a job, support and involvement of people around them, despite the complex internal psychological processes of a veteran that can affect others and affect them.
The main experience of a person returning from the frontline should be the feeling that he or she is needed, that he or she was waited for and has a place in society. Those who do not find their place after returning may eventually either return to war or seek various ways of self-support, which are not always adequate and often maladaptive, such as alcohol, drugs or smoking.
- What can the family or close environment do to improve the psychological state of veterans?
This is a difficult question. Support depends on the individual veteran. Some may need to be able to vent by repeating the same stories, so it is important to be patient and listen to them over and over again. Others, on the contrary, may seek silence and avoid talking. Some attention is needed to the needs of the returnee, acceptance, assistance in socialization, reintegration into society and establishing a peaceful life.
It is important to take into account the needs of the veteran and help with adaptation to civilian life. If aggression, alcohol abuse, or other negative manifestations that are difficult to control are manifested, then you should contact a psychologist for professional help.
- How do you assess the level of awareness of psychological assistance among the military and are there any stereotypes that prevent them from seeking support?
It is difficult for me to assess the general level of awareness among the military, as I do not have specific statistics. Many military personnel seek help and understand its importance, but as a rule, this does not happen at a time of well-being, but when problems arise that they want to solve.
Among those I work with, there is a willingness to work on themselves. However, many of them feel ashamed before visiting a psychotherapist: "Will I be sick if I go to him?" In fact, a psychologist or psychotherapist does not work with sick people, but with healthy people who need support.
There is the concept of "minor psychiatry", which covers a variety of disorders, and "major psychiatry", which refers to serious illnesses such as schizophrenia. This is important to understand: a serviceman who seeks help is not necessarily sick. He or she may have, for example, an adjustment disorder or PTSD that requires treatment.
It is important to remember that if you do not work with such problems, they can take hold in the psyche and become more difficult to overcome over time. Therefore, if you have any difficulties, you should immediately seek help and not be ashamed of it, just as we go to the doctor when we have a toothache. After all, our soul and psyche can also suffer, and a specialist will help to solve it.
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- In your opinion, how can a military person be encouraged to seek psychological counseling?
I believe that the most effective way to encourage a soldier to see a psychologist or psychotherapist is to follow the example of his fellow soldiers and close people whom he trusts. If a person who has gone through similar difficulties shares their experience and says: "Remember, I was in a difficult condition, but it helped me. Let's do it for you, too," this can have the maximum effect.
Another option is when loved ones say: "You have a problem, and if you don't start solving it, I will have to leave you." This approach can lead a person to seek therapy to improve their relationship and solve problems. Therefore, the influence of loved ones can be very powerful in making a decision to seek treatment.
- Should all military personnel undergo psychotherapy?
No, not all military personnel need psychotherapy. Our psyche can be quite resilient and self-adaptive - it can regulate itself and cope with difficulties. It is worth contacting a psychologist or psychotherapist when there is a real request, i.e. a problem that a person cannot solve on their own. In other cases, when emotional experiences can be overcome on their own, there is no need for therapy.
This is, of course, a complicated issue. For example, I myself regularly undergo psychotherapy and have not stopped it for a long time because I have a significant psychological burden. I would not be able to cope without it. In addition, I participate in therapy groups, supervision, and intervention groups. I devote a lot of time to working on my psyche because it is my tool and it is necessary for me.
However, for most people, unless they have a significant psychological burden, therapy may not be necessary.
- Why can psychotherapy be harmful in the conditions of being at the front?
Let me explain. It's not about psychotherapy itself, but about its methods. There are different approaches to working with the psyche. For example, there are techniques aimed at stabilizing the mental state or counseling to help a person cope with specific situations. This is cognitive work - explaining mechanisms and providing recommendations, and it can be done even at the front.
However, deep psychotherapy, which involves working with shock or trauma complexes and painful experiences, is risky in such conditions. To address these underlying problems, it is necessary to weaken the psychological defenses that are maximally activated in the military at the front. These defenses help them cope with enormous stress, fear, anxiety, deaths of their comrades, injuries, and a sense of powerlessness. The army is a structure where a person loses some control over his or her life, so mental defenses become critical for survival.
If these defenses are removed during psychotherapy in order to delve into emotional experiences, it can be harmful. That is why it is appropriate to use crisis counseling and stabilization methods at the front, but not to conduct in-depth psychotherapy work.
- As a veteran, not a psychologist, what advice would you give to your colleagues on adapting to civilian life after the war?
My way of adaptation is to talk about it. It's important to talk about your experiences, because there can be a lot of emotions inside that are related to the events that a veteran witnessed or participated in. For me, as for many others, the main mechanism was constant discussion of these events. Sometimes I repeated the same story many times, added new details, looked at it from different angles. It's like the metaphor of food: when we don't digest something well, it's easier to "throw it away" than to carry it around. It's the same with war experiences - it's an experience that no one would like to have, but talking about it helps to ease the emotional stress. Therefore, talking about it is an important part of adaptation.
The second important aspect is socialization. Trauma often makes people distance themselves from others and avoid social contacts. But this is the moment when you need to push yourself and start rebuilding relationships with people. We are social beings, and socializing in a healthy, warm atmosphere helps us recover and rebuild.
The standard approach to recovery is to work not only with the psyche but also with the body. Why is this a universal approach? Because the idea that the body and psyche are separate things is a misconception. In fact, they are closely interconnected, and it is difficult to draw a clear line between them. Where does the body end and the psyche begin? In the Gestalt approach, which I work with, the body and psyche are viewed holistically as a single, holistic system.
That's why physical activity is key. Physical exercises, such as sports, brisk walking, running, are some of the most effective ways to cope with psychological problems. It is also important to monitor your diet, establish sleep, and practice meditation or yoga. I recommend taking tests for thyroid hormones, vitamin D and B levels, and, if necessary, start taking supplements to normalize these indicators. This all affects the mental state, so you should not neglect these aspects.
People often hope that a therapist will solve their problems for them, but in reality, you need to do a lot of work on your own. Lifestyle has a big impact on mental health, so it's important to pay attention to your physical condition.
Psychological rehabilitation is only one of the methods of veterans' recovery. There are many other programs: equine-assisted therapy (rehabilitation with horses), bugurt , a type of martial art where you fight wall to wall, art therapy, and others. If a person is afraid or embarrassed to see a psychologist, there are other ways to interact and socialize. For example, you can participate in support groups for the military, where veterans share their experiences. This helps you understand that you are not alone with your experiences and normalize your condition.
- Can you tell us about successful cases of rehabilitation of military personnel who suffered serious psychological traumas?
Unfortunately, I cannot talk about specific successful cases due to confidentiality rules. I am not allowed to disclose information, even in an anonymous form, about what happens in therapy. This is the personal experience of clients, and I cannot describe it in detail. However, I can say that there are cases where psychotherapy has really helped the military and veterans solve the problems they came to me with.
The psyche is a complex structure, it can be compared to a cabbage: you remove one layer, another layer appears under it. Therapy cannot be "completed" in the full sense, it can only be stopped at a certain stage. Here it is important to understand the client's request: what they are willing to work with and what they are willing to accept. Not everyone wants to be perfect and undergo therapy endlessly. Therefore, the question is what is sufficient for a person - what specific problem needs to be solved to feel good.
- How to avoid emotional burnout during long-term service in a combat zone?
Research shows that several factors are important in preventing emotional burnout. First, the ability to openly express aggression without accumulating it inside. Secondly, strong social ties both in the military and in civilian life. Thirdly, the ability to notice and experience emotions without suppressing them. People who allow themselves to express the emotions they encounter at the front are better able to cope with psychological difficulties, including a lower incidence of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
For example, it may be customary in a unit to express aggression through harsh jokes or rude remarks, and everyone perceives this as a way to release tension without negative consequences. It is important that everyone has the opportunity to release tension in this way. In addition, warm social ties, both between brothers-in-arms and with loved ones in civilian life, are a key factor of support.
Another problem faced by the military is the loss of control over their own lives. They belong to the army 24/7, to the commander who decides when they sleep, eat, or even risk their lives. For those who are used to freedom, this can be a source of apathy and depression. In such cases, it's important to find ways to regain control, even in the smallest of things.
It can be something as simple as playing sports - you decide when and how to do it, even in difficult conditions. In my case, listening to music was such an "island of control": I could put on headphones even during shelling and fall asleep to music. It was my way of feeling control over my space. It can also be rituals, such as brushing your teeth or other daily habits that help you regain a sense of control over your life.
- How has your vision of the role of a psychologist in society changed since the beginning of active hostilities?
My vision of the role of a psychologist has not changed. A psychologist has always been an important part of modern society. Over the past 100-200 years, life has become much more complicated: emotional and psychological stress has increased, and the level of stress has risen. The world has become smaller, and the requirements for our behavior have become more complex and environmentally friendly. This requires a high level of cognitive and emotional stress. With this in mind, the role of a psychologist is becoming increasingly important. Helping people overcome challenges that are only getting more complex over time will become more and more in demand.
- How to deal with the feeling of guilt in the military that may arise after the war?
It is difficult to give general recommendations on guilt in the military because it is a very individual issue. What does the guilt arise for? Is it toxic or realistic? To whom is the guilt felt? And how is this feeling related to the individual's past and childhood? These are all important aspects that make the situation unique for everyone.
The only universal advice is to consult a psychologist. By the way, there are studies that show that a deficiency of B vitamins can affect the onset of guilt. This is just one of many possible factors, of which there may be many. Therefore, professional help is the best way to go.