To establish that it was the Russians blew up the Kakhovka hydroelectric power station, find evidence of ecocide, thoroughly investigate enemy missiles and drones to help our air defense forces, to assess the extent of damage from damage to our homes, schools, and hospitals. All this is hard and painstaking work work that the specialists of Kyiv Scientific Research Institute of Forensic of Forensic Expertise. The results of this work will become evidence of the crimes of Russian aggression against Ukraine for the International Criminal Court.
How many examinations have been conducted? were conducted, what is their complexity, how Ukrainian experts cooperate with their foreign colleagues - this was told by Oleksandr Ruvin, Director of Kyiv Scientific Research Oleksandr Ruvin, Director of Kyiv Scientific Research Institute of Forensic Expertise, in an exclusive interview with UNN .
- You announced the results of the of the Kakhovka dam explosion and said in one of your broadcasts that you were already you were already preparing substantiated conclusions and that the facts of the ecocide had already been established. Please tell us in more detail how these facts were established? How was the research conducted? At what stage is it now? stage is it now? Are you ready to hand it over yet?
We have been assigned a large-scale comprehensive examination. It addresses many issues in different areas. The experts have already conducted all the necessary explosive engineering studies. We have established how the explosion was prepared, how many explosions there were, where the explosives were placed, how everything and how everything worked. To bring the perpetrators to justice, it was important for us to to investigate the fact of the explosion itself, that it was indeed a deliberate and directed action of the Russian military. Next, we have issues in the area of ecology, we are engaged in we are actually establishing the existence of ecocide and damage caused by this explosion. The The expert commission includes representatives of more than 30 government agencies, each of which will provide a professional of which will provide its professional assessment of these tragic events and the joint conclusion will form the basis of an indictment for Russian criminals.
It is important to understand that thousands of animals and plants died after the hydroelectric power plant was blown up. Many species are under the threat of of complete extinction, because in the years after the construction of the hydroelectric power plant, the flora and fauna of the region adapted to living with a large reservoir. For example, the territory of Nizhnedniprovsky (Oleshkivsky) Sands is just one site with a huge number of rare species that are not found anywhere else in the world.
We are talking about Unprecedented consequences and damage to soils, nature reserves, and other natural resources, biodiversity, forests and other natural resources. In the course of further analysis, the number of analysis, the number of these objects will increase.
According to the preliminary conclusion we already have, the facts of ecocide, the death of all living things that existed at that time in the area of the Kakhovka reservoir at the time.
- Will the findings become evidence for the International Criminal Court?
Yes, and not only, but for all international courts and and other international courts that exist. This is the responsibility of the Specialized Environmental Prosecutor's Office, which is an independent structural unit of the Prosecutor General's Prosecutor General's Office. Our task is to provide scientific substantiation of all events and to provide the pre-trial investigation authorities pre-trial investigation with a reliable evidence base to bring the perpetrators to justice and to justice and further compensation for damages. We are not even talking about moral damages, we are talking about physical things that can be analyzed in the first place. first and foremost. Time will tell how this case will continue and what scale it will take.
We received a lot of materials, generalized data from various ministries, institutions and agencies - just a huge amount, and we need to to analyze everything properly.
- It will be two separate cases - ecocide and damming?
Yes, because the damage and destruction are directly consequences of the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant explosion, both to the dam and the power plant. And ecocide - is the consequences for the environment of all successive events, i.e. mass destruction of flora or fauna, poisoning of the atmosphere and water resources, as well as other actions that lead to an environmental disaster.
- There were three explosions inside the Kakhovka dam. This was established by the experts of Kyiv Scientific Research Institute of Forensic Expertise in the following way?
Our experts in the field of explosive and engineering and technical research went directly to the scene of the of the incident. As far as possible, visual inspections were carried out. We have all the data based on the results of expert aerial photography and the entire array of photo and video materials that were published in the networks in chronological sequence from the first minutes of the explosion. In addition, we have worked a lot with the project documentation that has been preserved since the construction of the hydroelectric power plant and all subsequent construction and technical works. The explosives were placed in the designated places for a reason. We did all of the following analyzed all this and established cause and effect relationships. This is part of the analysis, that helped us understand how everything happened, in which rooms and in what the explosions occurred in what sequence.
- Is there a set radius around the HPP, which areas are affected?
Of course, not just the radius. The expert commission has conclusions of dozens and even hundreds of water and soil samples from the affected areas. We are tracking the dynamics of changes over time. So far, we cannot disclose everything. disclose everything, but the work is very large-scale. It is important for the people who live there. people who live there, in the context that when they can return to more living conditions, they will be able to resume agriculture, crop production, etc. The destruction of the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant by the Russians will have a general impact on the nature of southern Ukraine. We need to know how to predict our rational actions.
- Another case with severe environmental consequences environmental consequences is the Chornobyl zone, you have also recently conducted some research. You have also recently conducted some research, can you compare Kakhovka HPP and Chornobyl?
Somewhat different stories. You cannot live in the exclusion zone because of the radiation, so there is a problem with the area itself. In the Kherson region and in the Kakhovka district, it is possible to live, it is not prohibited, but there is nothing to grows, you can't drink anything, you can't eat. After the explosion, the water level below the dam water level flooded dozens of settlements, including all garbage dumps, sewage collectors communications, etc., and polluted the lower reaches of the Dnipro River.
These are different stories. Perhaps, in the current catastrophe caused by Russia caused by Russia, in fact, a larger area was affected than the exclusion zone CHORNOBYL NUCLEAR POWER PLANT. We just hope that the consequences of the hydroelectric power plant explosion can be can be eliminated as soon as possible. It will be possible to restore the hydroelectric power plant itself, the dam, and water intake, restoration of previous conditions. I don't know if it will be in 5, 10 or 20 years, but it is is possible. It is not possible to live in the Chornobyl zone for now.
- The area of damage from the explosion of Kakhovka HPP is larger than it was after the Chernobyl disaster?
If we talk about the actual physical damage, yes, it is greater.
- Let's learn more about the International Criminal Court. We know that there is fruitful cooperation and close communication, how exactly?
On the basis of our The mission of the International Criminal Court regularly works on the basis of our institute. Investigators, prosecutors, and experts come to us and work with Ukrainian experts virtually side by side. Today, the Chief Prosecutor of the ICC is Prosecutor of the ICC is Kareem Khan, a representative of the United Kingdom. His deputy has visited us. His deputy has visited us, and we regularly meet with the coordinator of all the forensic experts from different countries involved in the work under the auspices of the ICC. The ICC mission consists of experts from around the world. In addition, as you know, the ICC Field Office has started of the ICC Field Office in Ukraine, which is the largest of their offices outside the outside of The Hague.
Each mission, which takes place periodically at our base, about 20 experts are involved. These are explosive experts, specialists in the restoration of destroyed buildings and structures, specialists in computer and technical expertise, and others. These are representatives of the Dutch, Belgian, Slovak, and other expert institutions.
In particular, computer forensics experts helped our experts recover data from Russian equipment and and various gadgets. This is video footage that will serve as evidence of the crimes of the Russians, that they committed in Ukraine, in court.
- With which countries, in general, does KFI cooperate with?
We work with all countries where we see an initiative to help Ukraine. to help Ukraine. We had many international partners before the war, and now these boundaries are expanding. We had high-ranking officials from Belgium, Israel, the Netherlands, Slovakia, the United States, and France. Each time, these are different countries whose representatives are also ready to to join the work of the ICC and work in Ukraine at our base.
- You said on one of the TV channel that Russia has started to fire more often at Ukrainians with Iskander K" and "Iskander M" missiles?
Well, you see, now, along with ballistics, there are more UAVs again, they are being used very actively. They fly a combination of "chessmen" and then fly cruise missiles or ballistics. These are very variable things. They have their own tactics, which, fortunately for us, are obviously not very effective. The Russians are doing everything to to mislead our air defense systems.
- You also said that Russia has started producing two types of UAVs under the supervision of the FSB, can you tell us about it?
We have information about two Russian factories that that produce Shahed-type attack drones. We have analyzed samples from both of them, and we have a full report on the "stuffing", system configuration, design features, and design features and all the details.
Recently, they made some noise when Ukraine was attacked by attacked Ukraine with black drones. The media talked about carbon fiber coating, etc. In fact, the first samples showed that this is their usual typical "Shahed". It just looks like it looks like it was spray-painted black. At the same time, all the internal elements of the structure are gray, the same as in all previous samples. Is it possible say that carbon fiber coating is impossible? No, it is not. But as long as it is not there, we will continue to we will continue to monitor it. These are, in fact, our main tasks. To identify which Russian weapons were used, even after they were destroyed by air defense forces. To provide law enforcement agencies with information about all the features, changes, modifications, etc. etc.
As for the reconnaissance drones that were produced under the supervision of the FSB, we have Kartograf, Orlan, and Supercam UAVs, all of which we also have. Reconnaissance drones are used for remote collection of relevant information about the area, using sensors and cameras, they carry out high-resolution photography, cartography, and other types of data collection. Simply put, they also prepare the ground in their own way for further setting the flight coordinates of cruise missiles, taking into account the peculiarities of the of the terrain.
For example, Kartographer has 12 cameras, and in Supercam we found cameras and matrices made by Sony. Unfortunately, all of them contain foreign microelectronics. Almost all the important technological components of these enemy "birds" are made outside Russia. How and when it got there is a complicated question. Perhaps there were stockpiles. Now the sanctions are in place, but there are still illegal supply routes in smaller quantities. However, it is an indisputable fact that they have nothing of their own.
- Thanks to the expertise of the Kyiv Scientific Research Institute of Forensic Expertise air defense forces can modernize and reorganize their work to protect Ukraine's sky. Consulted.
We are constantly in touch with our colleagues, and even have a certain updated format of work, when we involve specialists from all interested specialists from all interested agencies - the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine, the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine of Ukraine, the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Armed Forces themselves, representatives of the Central Research Institute of Arms and Military Equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Air Defense Forces, the Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine, and others. In other words, all interested institutions that directly involved in security issues. We all work together and We all work together and have coordinated communication. Not only on the effectiveness of air defense.
- Are you consulted on what kind of air defense equipment?
Let's be frank, right now we need everything we can get to protect the country everything we can get. As for what to buy, we don't advise much, but we are involved in we are involved in the process of conducting tests and inspections, in particular, of unmanned aerial drones used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
- Are there any Ukrainian developers?
There are 127 of them. We check each one and give conclusions, according to the the resolution of the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine.
- Can we disclose how many of the 127 were rejected?
The word rejected is not quite correct. Our task is not to to harm, but to suggest what needs to be done to make these devices effective. We are provide our recommendations. The tasks and purposes for which manufacturers prepare their equipment for. Units of the Armed Forces may need drones for for some tasks, intelligence for others, and air defense for yet others. Each time there are different requirements, and they must be met before they can be purchased and used.
- Is there any information on how many Russian missiles, drones, and live ammunition have been examined since the beginning of the of the full-scale invasion?
One resolution on the appointment of a forensic examination may may contain 10 or 15 objects of investigation. This is definitely a count in the thousands. In 2023, the experts of Kyiv Scientific Research Institute of Forensic Expertise performed more than 50 thousand forensic examinations. Among them - 30 thousand on the facts of Russia's armed Russia's armed aggression against Ukraine. It is not only about the study of Russian weapons. These are engineering and technical examinations of the destruction of movable and immovable property as a result of hostilities, economic expertise on the calculation of the relevant losses for the state as a whole and individuals, computer and technical examinations of enemy equipment and electronic means, and much more. About 90 percent of the examinations were performed at the request of law enforcement agencies.
- You also said that Russia has now begun firing missiles produced in May-June 2023 at Ukraine. Does this mean that the old stockpiles are over?
This suggests that they have significantly reduced their expenses. Not because they have run out, because we don't know for sure. They may have hidden stocks in their warehouses, but they have definitely hidden stocks in their warehouses, but they have definitely decreased.
- Does the Kyiv Scientific Research Institute of Forensic Expertise have a theory why recently, the enemy sometimes uses tactics when Ukraine is attacked by only a few enemy UAVs? only a few enemy UAVs?
We think this is a tactic to test the air defense system that that exists in Ukraine. They see what, where, and how it works, the radars are turned on, and immediately other missiles are flying. They are checking for the presence of, firstly, and secondly they try to deplete our stockpiles. They fly one or two at a time and are shot down. But. if you compare the cost of one attack UAV and an air defense missile, there is a significant difference.
- Russian weapons research - is not the only area of expertise in the context of war?
This is a huge amount of expert work. Construction expertise: destroyed buildings - assessment of damage to buildings, infrastructure and municipal facilities as a result of shelling, explosions or other military actions. Engineering expertise is an analysis of the structural safety of the remaining structures, identification of possible hazards and recommendations for restoration. Economic expertise - Establishment of economic losses, determination of economic losses as a result of of military operations, including the cost of lost facilities, crops, infrastructure etc.
We also conduct psychological and linguistic examinations of Russian officials, propagandists, and even figures of the local "culture", ranging from Nikolai Baskov, Tina Kandelaki, and Olga Skabeeva. We have a whole list of such people. Not to mention the pseudo-Ukrainian priests Pavel, Onufriy, etc.
These are various expertise that are important for providing objective information, damage assessment and development of strategies for recovery after military events.
- Russian Orthodox Church - How much research has been done on it?
A lot about almost all the leaders of the Russian Orthodox Church, including the first person. In addition, psychological and linguistic and linguistic examinations were also conducted on representatives and leaders of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate. All persons were provided with an appropriate assessment and the relevant conclusions of the examinations. They were engaged in, let's say, very loyal, propaganda and misleading people. I think later we will be able to explain and tell about will be able to explain and talk about these things publicly in more detail.
- Let's get back to the issue of losses, what is the approximate amount? Will Russia have to sell its country?
We cannot say the total amount of losses because we do not count the whole of Ukraine. This is a very significant figure, and I think it is not commensurate with with the money that is allegedly blocked in the West, which is $300 billion. We think it is much more
I don't know about selling it off, but I will have to pay back the money. Maybe not in one year, in installments, but I will have to. How long has Germany been paying? People who were in concentration camps are still receiving payments. We hope that Russia will have the same fate.